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Post by wiseowl on Jun 18, 2011 21:10:45 GMT -5
Section 16. CONSEQUENCES FOR COACHES WHO CRITICIZE GAME OFFICIAL(S) IN A PUBLIC
FORUM
Any coach who criticizes a game official(s) in a public forum over the course of his/her career will be subject
to the following:
1. First Offense – One game disqualification and the school be fined $100.
2. Second Offense – Two (2) game disqualification and the school be fined $150.
3. Third Offense – Disqualification for the remainder of the season * and the school be fined $250.
* The coach will be disqualified for a minimum of five (5) games. If the season ends prior to completing the
five (5) game disqualification the remaining days will carry over to the next season.
Each confirmed incident will be evaluated on a case by case basis by RIIL staff and appropriate action
invoked. Additionally, the school administration will be required to file a report with the RIIL delineating
the steps the schools and athletic administration have taken to address this issue to assure no reoccurrence.
When a coach is disqualified for such actions the following disqualification rules shall apply:
1. The coach will be disqualified from the next league contest and any non-league games in between.
2. Coaches cannot be in attendance at the game(s) for which they are serving their suspension and may not
participate in any pre-game warm-up activities at the site.
3. Disqualifications from the last contest of one season carry over to the next season in that sport for coaches.
4. The school’s first incident of non-compliance, for reasons other than defiance of the disqualification rules,
will result in forfeiture, a $250 fine and the coach must serve the disqualification penalty; a school’s second
incident of non-compliance will prohibit the school from entry in the next RIIL tournament for that sport,
or from the remainder of the current tournament if the disqualification occurs during an RIIL tournament or
during the last regular season contest / day of competition. However, when a school willfully defies this
regulation the school and/or coach will be subject to further action by the RIIL Principals’ Committee on
Athletics.
Those found in violation of this rule will not have the opportunity to an appeal.
Coaches have an opportunity to raise officiating concerns through the proper school channels (Athletic Director and
Principal)
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Post by wiseowl on Jun 18, 2011 21:18:24 GMT -5
CT went the same route last yr or the yr before w/ this rule which many considered an infringement on the 1st amendment.
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Post by rulesguy on Jun 19, 2011 21:07:35 GMT -5
hmmmm... even as an official, I am not sure i like this... Critique, is the only way people learn... not that all coaches critique is correct.
To let everyone know however, there will still be an open forum next year on this site to ask questions about rules, situations, and anything else officiating related. This site has always been kept in good taste an I trust we will keep it that way in the future.
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Post by helper on Jun 20, 2011 15:23:05 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. So if I am at a game and after the game inform the ref that I believe he/she did an awful job do I get fined? How else but publicly do we have a chance to reach a lot of officials, in wrestling its a bit easier because we see them in other places at times. But even privately pulling someone aside at a tournament is technically a public forum depending how crazy RIIL or the official is. Wait till the amend this rule and add RIIL officials into it. If you are to insult anything Mr. Mezz does you get a fine... ha ha ha ha crazy. 1st amendment is written all over this.
The point that scares me is this "Those found in violation of this rule will not have the opportunity to an appeal." Any official could create a vendetta against a coach and they would be in serious trouble. Its not even my word vs theres. Its 1 persons word against no ones because you cant defend your stance or give your side of the story.
This site hasnt always been in good taste but over the last 3 years it has gotten in much better taste and as you said I also hope it stays that way.
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Post by pantherjhu on Jun 20, 2011 23:03:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry, folks, but the 1st amendment to the constitution does not apply here. The 1st amendment only prohibits a federal or state LAW from infringing on free speech. This is not a Rhode Island state law that is being implemented but a by-law for members of the RIIL. The RIIL is not a government agency but a "voluntary organization of principals who pledge their high schools and participants to follow the Rules and Regulations of the League. There are fifty-four (54) public, private, and parochial high schools who make up the membership. These schools sponsor athletic activities in twenty-four (24) sports. Over twenty-thousand (20,000) young men and women compete annually in thousands of competitions among Rhode Island Interscholastic League member schools. The purpose of the Rhode Island Interscholastic League is to supervise and administer the athletic programs, contests, and schedules and matters related thereto in participating schools of the State of Rhode Island" (RIIL.org). So, in effect, it is a private organization that can establish any rule they want. If you don't like the rules, you can simply not join as a member school or, as a parent, not let your child participate and join another type of league out there instead. Many may not like it, but that's how it is. That is why the Connecticut hullabaloo didn't go anywhere when it came to fighting it. I actually like this rule as it applies to wrestling, and here's why - that is the rule already! According to the rule book, a coach is supposed to go over to the table to address an official about misapplication of a rule. That is a private conversation and not a public forum. That is the only reason a coach is supposed to address an official at any point, at least according to the rule book. If a coach is wrong about the application of a rule, he or she is to be penalized for coach misconduct. At no point is a coach supposed to address a ref about concerns of a judgement call as this is not misapplication of a rule, and a coach especially shouldn't be yelling at refs from the sidelines as this is not "taking the ref to the table." This RIIL rule is simply pushing further with monetary penalties what should have been happening all along, as this is what the rules already stipulate, and it's that coaches and all others should not be yelling at refs. I actually like this rule because I think the reactions to refs have become increasingly out of hand. I can't tell you how many times I've seen refs yelled at until the coach was blue in the face that they "@#$% up that take down or stalling call," when 99/100 times, the ref was correct, and the coach obviously had limited knowledge of the actual rules. Too often have I seen coaches yelling f-bombs and other extreme obscenities. It has gotten completely out of hand. I'm sorry, just because you see Bobby Cox, Doc Rivers, or even Tom Brands doing it doesn't mean you should. You are not "protecting your kids" by acting this way as that implies that refs just make subjective calls and are going to use "make up" calls. This is not the NBA, this is high school and Rhode Island has some of the best refs around and the most objective that I've seen. I'm sorry that I'm ranting, but I have gotten sick of it over the years when the rule preventing this is actually on the books in the wrestling rule book. In all of my matches in Connecticut and in prep school, I have NEVER had a coach or parent yell at me, not once. I have only had coaches address me at the table about the application of a rule, and when they were wrong, they APOLOGIZED! There's only so much one man can take of coaches and parents yelling obscenities around children, sometimes very, very young children in the stands.
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Post by pantherjhu on Jun 20, 2011 23:14:49 GMT -5
Oh, and for those that may bring up the state's relationship with the RIIL, especially in regards to subsidies, "The RIIL , established in 1932, is a voluntary, private, incorporated, non-profit association. The League does not receive any state appropriations. Membership dues and fees, tournament and championship gate receipts, as well as corporate sponsorship make up the major revenue base of the RIIL" (RIIL.org). Many may not like how they run their operation at times, but the RIIL is a private organization that can establish its own rules for the most part (see the Boy Scouts of America case a while back).
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Post by wiseowl on Jun 21, 2011 21:37:21 GMT -5
A public forum is a United States constitutional law term that describes a government-owned property that is open to public expression and assembly.
A public forum, also called an open forum, is open to all expression that is protected under the First Amendment. Streets, parks, and sidewalks are considered open to public discourse by tradition and are designated as traditional public forums.
So what is the RIIL gonna consider a public forum? If I'm walking on the sidewalk to my bus and say to my coaching staff "that ref was horrible, made terrible calls", and an RIIL officials hears my comment, I can be suspended?
Or do they consider this a public forum, which technically you need to be a member to post on here, but not read, we'll have to change the public viewing to member viewing only Helper, lol.
I think RI has some great refs and some bad refs. I think RI has some great coaches and some bad coaches. I think there's plenty of coaches that don't know all the rules and sounds ridiculous when they yell and argue. Some berate the officials and should be tossed or suspended, I agree w/ that. But there are officials who I've had experience w/ that don't always know the rules. Yes we can argue rules misinterpretations, I've gone that route many times I've been right and wrong before. But when it comes to discretion calls where we have no say, it's very frustrating as a coach to watch our hard working wrestlers lose a match, lose points, give up points on bad calls. Yes there's the saying "don't put the match in the hands of the ref" but some matches are gonna be close matches. Does it happen all the time no, but there are a handful of refs that make me cringe when I see them on my schedule, because they consistently make bad calls, rules and discretion. I truly hope they do get better for the sake of the sport and RI wrestling. I'm not sure I can agree w/ the 99/100 stat, I think that's a slap to the coaches, and a chip for one who believes that. Like Rulesguy said, you can learn or teach f/ criticism. JMO
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